Umh, it's really hard to tell. There is no doubt that without Newton, Einstein would have had much less to work on and with. Newton made huge steps forward in mechanics, with his three laws of motion, universal gravitation, principles of conservation of momentum and in mathematics, with his major contribution to calculus. Had all that not been provided, even Einstein's brilliance would have yielded far more meagre results. History is full of such key individuals and of figures that could have been such. Makes me think of Heron of Alexandria. He was a Greek mathematician and engineer in the 1st century CE. He did impressive work on steam machines and if he only had brought his research a tad further - and if the society he lived in had been more receptive - we could have had an industrial revolution almost two millennia in advance. Can you imagine how different the world would be now?

"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-

In a way its a joint effort.

@ shaka
you wrote:
"Heron of Alexandria. He was a Greek mathematician and engineer in the 1st century CE. He did impressive work on steam machines and if he only had brought his research a tad further - and if the society he lived in had been more receptive - we could have had an industrial revolution almost two millennia in advance. Can you imagine how different the world would be now?"

Do you think that possibly if his work created an industrial revolution that much earlier, that we would be much more advanced than we are now? That would be pretty cool. I've often thought to myself how I wish I was born like 1 or 2 hundred years from now, because maybe then we'll have figured out those questions (like in science) we haven't been able to figure out yet. Like HOW or I should say WHY the universe was created/ what happened before the big bang, or what caused it maybe, or what REALLY happens inside a singularity. Or maybe in that time we'd have been able to find extraterrestrial intellegent life. I think that would be the MOST exciting discovery EVER. Like in that movie "Contact" I love that movie.

As of Einstein vs Newton, I found an interesting column on it is why I actually thought of this topic.. it is:
http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?tip=1&id=3848

It says that Einstein in 1917 described the theory behind the laser, so he basically gave us the knowledge to invent the CD and DVD, VERY important things in our lives

Also, his theory of General Relativity gave birth to a whole new field of science.. Cosmology.. which led to idea's in the Big Bang, Black holes, Parellel universes, and so on. Impressive again!

OH! I almost forgot, Einstein is also the one who Explained why the sky is Blue!

"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-

Don't you find it amazing how slowely the human race advanced over the first couple million years.. I heard that once humans learn to "harnest fire" (our cavemen ansestors) things really started to pick up..
And even back thousands of years ago.. we were like in a frozen state.. not advancing much at all.. and now, since there's freedom of speech, internet, and all that.. we are advancing sooooo fast. I mean look how far we've come in just the last hundred years.. I wonder if our world will change that fast in the next hundred years?? That's crazy.. just when you think we've thought of just about all there is to discover, we find we don't really know much at all. Ever read any of Stephen Hawkings books? "the universe in a nutshell" is major cool on these topics...He talks about what he personally thinks the human race is headed for in the future.. and alot more.

Can you imagine if Contact (the movie) became a reality? If we contacted intellegent life in another solar stystem? Or if it would be possible to travel and LIVE thru a wormhole? I DO believe it was Albert Einstein btw that gave birth to that idea as well didn't he?? I could just imagine what Albert would have to say about todays advances in Science, he always hated the idea of like string theory and so forth.. he use to say "god does not play dice". But now I think most scientists agree that string theory is correct, I watched that Brian Greene special "the elegant universe".. very cool btw, highly recomended if you haven't seen it

There were many key points in human evolution, the mastery of fire was certainly a major one. Our erect posture was pretty big as well. Yeah, in general you could say things started kicking in with Homo erectus. As for modern humans, it's true that were centuries of stagnation, mostly fuelled by our anthropocentrism. The notion that we are the apex of what some people still insist on calling creation surely didn't work as an incentive to improve things at all. Fortunately things have been changing since at a more or less increasing pace since the 18th century, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next few decades proved pivotal in our history as a species. The space age is probably the most exciting part of it all and we're at the doorstep of something that defining huge is an understatement. The only thing holding us back is the existence of a bunch of pockets of dogmatic resistance to change, but they're slowly being swept away.


Stephen Hawkings is perhaps the most brilliant mind on the planet today and a real pride for our species. I don't know if you've had a chance to read "A Brief History of Time" by him, if you haven't you might want to consider it. It's an impressive little volume touching subjects from the Big Bang to Superstring Theory and while it gets a bit technical from time to time it's still a very pleasant read. I suggest the updated 2005 edition.


The idea of wormholes and of travelling through them had many fathers. Hermann Weyl was probably the first in 1921, but he didn't use the word wormhole. Einstein and Rosen expanded on the idea and used wormholes as a solution for a theory of Einstein's (Einstein field equations). It is thought that wormholes are too unstable to allow travelling through them in normal conditions, but a guy named Thorne in the late '80s posited that a wormhole might be kept open enough to allow passing through it, so it would in principle be possible to travel through a wormhole and - always in principle - both in time and space, although time travel is still very much debated. Don't jump on your DeLorean just yet

"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-

Homo Erectus!! omg.. did you see that BBC program called "walking with cavemen" also?? hehe, they talked about those guys too.. on the program, I think they were the specie that started using the first tools? Carved Stones? I don't know.. there were lots of them.. homo agastus.. erectus.. and I think some more.

I once went to a speech of Stephen Hawkins over at Cal tech when I lived down by there.. Could barely understand him so he had a translater inbetween. I am a big fan of Hawkins.. and I do have his book your talking about.. brief history in time.. I also have black holes and baby universes.. he is VERY impressive. I have some science dvd's I burned from renting awhile back as well that show him talking.. and getting back on topic btw.. isn't he the one In Issac Newton's chair? Position anyways?

"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-

Newton!!....

Yes that bbc show on walking with cavemen was really good, my son and I watch it together all the time, just watched it a couple days ago.. and they do talk about .. first came that austalapificas.. (monkey more than human).. then i think the H. abilis, and erectus, but H. agastis they said they think first made the stone tools.. that homo erectus was in asia i think, and they used bamboo.. but that's what they said, and im going off memory so forgive if wrong
I didn't know Hawkings had resined.. was it because of his condition? He's really not that old.

I remember reading somewhere that Einstein was almost embaressed that he proved Newton to be wrong with his laws. Einstein himself was never the type to talk himself up.. and would frequently downplay his part in important discoveries.. especially in his later years. He definatly thought Newton was the better man of them two, by far.

Oh no, it wasn't because of his condition ^^ he's alive and kicking. It's just a sort of policy at Cambridge that officeholders must retire when they turn 67 - which Hawking did. So all he did was retire from his institutional post, but he still works at the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics.


Einstein was a strange man, and I agree he probably wasn't aware of his own sheer brilliance. Not to say that Newton's contribution to physics was meaningless, of course. The problem is that he, like all other physicists back in his days, thought of time as following universal and unchangeable rules, whereas Einstein showed how time is relative to one's own frame of reference. But it's worth mentioning that, as far as gravity goes, Newton's law of gravitation still works well as an approximation of Einstein's "relativistic gravity" on smaller scales. After all, it is still taught in physics classes ^^

"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-

I will agree that both were brilliant men " in their times " to coin a phrase..However as a farmer i can more readily identify with einstein,having regard to the farming seasons eg, when to make hay??
Newton was known as pillar of society,a solid family man ,never with the roving eye...BYYYYY contrast.Einstein AKA the banger of berne was boffing everything he could get his hands on ,while still retaining sufficient energy to sire two sons at home...then he took up with his cousin,she was a bit old to have children,he was unfazed,he cheated on her too at every opportunity..In short einstein really knew when to make hay...Einstein had his most brilliant visions gazing at the berne clocktower during post coital lethargy,.thats why he ran away from judaism,judaism has NO's ,,,,he said i wanna!! i'm gunna !!!..His body was made in germany with dresden (clay ) providing the feet....When i was first at uni i lived on einstein street,go figger....

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Einstein had his issue's in the social world. I dont see how that means he's the banger of berlin :roll: He always admitted he wasnt that good with people...again downplaying himself. He did marry his cousin, ive never heard of him cheating and ive read alot about him. Physically cheating that is.. he had a shitty marraige with his first wife so he got close to Elsa his cousin.. weird, but he's a weird guy, but a genius nontheless. I think his passion for mankind is amazing. But I dont read tabloids.. I read what his views are on the world.

Newton covered it best:
“If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.”
They are giants on the pyramid of knowledge allowing succeeding generations greater vision; both were exceptional geniuses.

Do not measure people by things they cannot change.

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