Global flood
The bible tells that the "waters prevailed exceeedingly upon the earth.; and all the high hills that were under heaven were covered" Genesis 7:19.
Many have argued that this is not possible..... But the evidence tells us that at one time there was a catastrophic flood that did cover the earth, and accounts for most of the earths fossills. The topography of the earth before the flood would have been much different than it is now. There would have been no high mountains. All current mountain ranges are made of sedimentary rock or volcanoes attributable to the flood.
Also the Bible tells us that it never rained before the flood. Its possible some think that a vapour canopy surrounded the earth. Even though it never rained, there were rivers which originated from subterranean reservoirs. These reservoirs are mentioned in Genesis 7 as "the fountains of the great deep" spewed their contents at the start of the flood; and "the windows of heaven were opened" as the rain came down. The breaking open of the fountains of the deep would have caused tsunami's worse than Al Gore could imagine.
Next time you are looking at mountains... ask yourself if the evidence fits within the Creation / flood framework.
BTW... There is MORE than enough water on the earth to have caused a global flood. If the earth were levelled out, it would be covered by more than 7000 feet (over 2000 meters) of water.
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Many have argued that this is not possible.....
Because it isn't.
But the evidence tells us that at one time there was a catastrophic flood that did cover the earth,
No, we have evidence for higher water levels at different times that submerged large portions of coastal areas, but no such thing as a global flood.
and accounts for most of the earths fossills.
Boy, I'd love to see you try and argue your way around that.
The topography of the earth before the flood would have been much different than it is now. There would have been no high mountains. All current mountain ranges are made of sedimentary rock or volcanoes attributable to the flood.
How do you attribute volcanoes to a global flood? Please, do amuse us.
Also the Bible tells us that it never rained before the flood. Its possible some think that a vapour canopy surrounded the earth.[...]BTW... There is MORE than enough water on the earth to have caused a global flood. If the earth were levelled out, it would be covered by more than 7000 feet (over 2000 meters) of water.
Impossible and nonsensical. First of all, "if the earth were levelled out" is a cheap cop out. To cover earth as we know it it would take about five times the amount of water we have on it. To try and explain where all that water came from, Creationists such as you have come up with the idea of a vapour canopy suspended in the atmosphere of the planet. No can do. First off you can't explain how such a huge amount of vapour was suspended and kept in place until the moment of the flood, preventing it from undergoing premature condensation. Secondly, a vapour canopy that massive would have destructive effects way before any flood could occur. Such an amount of vapour would raise atmospheric pressure and increase oxygen and nitrogen levels way beyond the toxicity threshold for aerobic life on the planet. Life would be impossible. Also, the insane pressure would raise atmospheric temperature accordingly, much like in a pressure cooker. The vapour could simply never condensate to fall as water and the atmospheric temperature would roast any life form. Another thing that would make life on the surface of the planet impossible would be the nearly total absence of light, which the concentration of vapour would prevent from reaching past the canopy. While the lack of light would partly counter-balance the insane temperatures due to the pressure, it would still make life impossible. Furthermore, any water vapour stored beyond the ozone layer would be literally destroyed by the unfiltered UV light.
Even though it never rained, there were rivers which originated from subterranean reservoirs. These reservoirs are mentioned in Genesis 7 as "the fountains of the great deep" spewed their contents at the start of the flood; and "the windows of heaven were opened" as the rain came down. The breaking open of the fountains of the deep would have caused tsunami's worse than Al Gore could imagine.
Such underground water reservoir could not have been contained too long by the earth's rocky crust and would simply have filtered towards the surface over time. In order for the "opening of the fountains" to create the explosion you seem to hint to, the water would have to be held under pressure very deep below the surface - and even in that case it could not be contained for too long. Plus the pressure would have superheated the water, scorching alive anything it would come into contact with upon release. The heat of the underground water would have added up to the insane temperature caused by the vapour canopy suspended in the atmosphere. The pressure cooker effect would have been made even worse and absolutely nothing would have survived. Plus the ejection of water from the underground should have left huge basaltic erosional deposits all over the place. Where are they?
Next time you are looking at mountains... ask yourself if the evidence fits within the Creation / flood framework.
It doesn't. Never did. Never will.
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"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-
clap trap!!!...this happened in the Black sea..when the mediterranean sea breached the then land bridge by istanbul,turkey......sorry longload you will have to try harder than that!!....all in the head..mate....again!!!
No, we have evidence for higher water levels at different times that submerged large portions of coastal areas, but no such thing as a global flood.
Mount Everest is not a coastal area. Neither is the Himilayas. Marine fossils are found at high altitudes in all mountain ranges. Here in Canada a large marine dinosaur was recently recovered high in the Rocky Mountains.
The topography of the earth before the flood would have been much different than it is now. There would have been no high mountains. All current mountain ranges are made of sedimentary rock or volcanoes attributable to the flood.
How do you attribute volcanoes to a global flood? Please, do amuse us.
Its part of the creation / flood model. The Bible says "the fountains of the deep opened". This would have been accompanied by seismic activity and earthquakes. Some scientists estimate that the energy release would have been the equivelent of ten billion hydrogen bombs.
Also the Bible tells us that it never rained before the flood. Its possible some think that a vapour canopy surrounded the earth.[...]BTW... There is MORE than enough water on the earth to have caused a global flood. If the earth were levelled out, it would be covered by more than 7000 feet (over 2000 meters) of water.
Impossible and nonsensical. First of all, "if the earth were levelled out" is a cheap cop out. To cover earth as we know it it would take about five times the amount of water we have on it. To try and explain where all that water came from, Creationists such as you have come up with the idea of a vapour canopy suspended in the atmosphere of the planet. No can do. First off you can't explain how such a huge amount of vapour was suspended and kept in place until the moment of the flood
Its not impossible. First of all I never claimed that the earth was level. That point was merely to point out that there is plenty of water. The earth was not level at the time of the flood. However, the creation / flood model proposes that the mountains rose up at the time of the flood.
Virtually all geographical (and other)features in the world fit within the flood model.... to name a few
1. mid oceanic ridge
2. continental shelves and slopes
3. ocean trenches
4. magnetic variations of the ocean floor
5. coal and oil formations
6. ice age
7. frozen mammoths
8. strata and layered fossills
9. limestone
10. jigsaw fit of the continents.
etc
etc
etc
Also Shaka... I agree with what you said about a vapour canopy IF I had claimed thats where the water came from. Its quite possible there was a canopy, but most of the flood water came from subterranean chambers as it says in the Bible.
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Mount Everest is not a coastal area. Neither is the Himilayas. Marine fossils are found at high altitudes in all mountain ranges. Here in Canada a large marine dinosaur was recently recovered high in the Rocky Mountains.
We've talked about this and your ignoring the rebuttals the first time won't change the fact that you're raving. Point one: mountain ranges are formed by land uplift, which explains the presence of marine fossils on mountain slopes. What are now mountain rocks were once shallow sea floor. Point two: a flood - considering the huge amount of moving water - would erode mountains and both sediments and organisms would deposit at the bottom of valleys. As always, you're wrong.
Its part of the creation / flood model. The Bible says "the fountains of the deep opened". This would have been accompanied by seismic activity and earthquakes. Some scientists estimate that the energy release would have been the equivelent of ten billion hydrogen bombs.
I've already addressed your underground fountain nonsense. I'm not going to repeat myself.
Its not impossible.
It is.
First of all I never claimed that the earth was level. That point was merely to point out that there is plenty of water.
Nope, there isn't.
The earth was not level at the time of the flood. However, the creation / flood model proposes that the mountains rose up at the time of the flood.
Except you can't explain how.
Virtually all geographical (and other)features in the world fit within the flood model.... to name a few
1. mid oceanic ridge
2. continental shelves and slopes
3. ocean trenches
4. magnetic variations of the ocean floor
5. coal and oil formations
6. ice age
7. frozen mammoths
8. strata and layered fossills
9. limestone
10. jigsaw fit of the continents.
etc
etc
etc
1. mid oceanic ridge
2. continental shelves and slopes
3. ocean trenches
4. magnetic variations of the ocean floor
5. coal and oil formations
6. ice age
7. frozen mammoths
8. strata and layered fossills
9. limestone
10. jigsaw fit of the continents.
etc
etc
etc
Go ahead and explain them all, I'm dying to see you try.
Also Shaka... I agree with what you said about a vapour canopy IF I had claimed thats where the water came from.
Many of your Creationist friends do, and I'm sure you would had you not been shown how that's a stupid idea.
Its quite possible there was a canopy,
No, it is not. Have you even bothered to read and understand my post?
but most of the flood water came from subterranean chambers as it says in the Bible.
Just as impossible as the water canopy, and I've explained why.
Such underground water reservoir could not have been contained too long by the earth's rocky crust and would simply have filtered towards the surface over time. In order for the "opening of the fountains" to create the explosion you seem to hint to, the water would have to be held under pressure very deep below the surface - and even in that case it could not be contained for too long. Plus the pressure would have superheated the water, scorching alive anything it would come into contact with upon release. The heat of the underground water would have added up to the insane temperature caused by the vapour canopy suspended in the atmosphere. The pressure cooker effect would have been made even worse and absolutely nothing would have survived. Plus the ejection of water from the underground should have left huge basaltic erosional deposits all over the place. Where are they?
You just never learn, do you?
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"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-
The evidence of a global flood is overwhelming. The Bible explains to us that people will mis-interpret the evidence (2Peter3:5). The mis-interpretation of evidence is a deliberate attempt to force God from their conciousness. Humanists and evolutionists deliberatly refuse to interpret evidence correctly. Romans1:20 tells us "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
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The evidence of a global flood is overwhelming. The Bible explains to us that people will mis-interpret the evidence (2Peter3:5). The mis-interpretation of evidence is a deliberate attempt to force God from their conciousness. Humanists and evolutionists deliberatly refuse to interpret evidence correctly. Romans1:20 tells us "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
Do you actually think quoting the Bible will impress anyone? You've been presented with the reasons why not only a global flood did not occur, but why it could not possibly occur. Reasons you have not addressed and have decided to ignore instead. If quoting your holy book is the only way you have to confront reality, then I guess you don't have anything else to add to the discussion and the discussion itself is pretty much over. The evidence of a global flood is not overwhelming. The evidence for a global flood doesn't exist. It never really did, except in the minds of those who "just knew" they were going to find such evidence before they even started looking. Sucks to be them.
__________________________
"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-
.........
The evidence of a global flood is overwhelming. The Bible explains to us that people will mis-interpret the evidence (2Peter3:5). The mis-interpretation of evidence is a deliberate attempt to force God from their conciousness. Humanists and evolutionists deliberatly refuse to interpret evidence correctly. Romans1:20 tells us "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
Do you actually think quoting the Bible will impress anyone? You've been presented with the reasons why not only a global flood did not occur, but why it could not possibly occur.
Quoting the Bible is not to impress anyone, but to share the truth.
And yes you have presented reasons why you interpret the evidence in ways I consider wrong...you consider right. Not only does the Bible tell us about the global food, but the physical evidence supports it. The evidence all fits within the global flood model and supports it.
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My own understanding is that a literal global flood never happened. I see this as a spiritual meaning because it would help our own consciousness to evolve and grow. A literal meaning does not mean anything because it is just something that happened in the past and is no longer connected with our present. Even if it happened literally so what? Proving that it happened only enhances our ego and our intellectual knowledge but it never goes deeper than that.
The Upanishads speak of a time when there the world had an abundance of humans filled with spiritual wisdom and enlightenment. People lived spiritually and naturally. People lived as angels or Gods where everyone was aware of their responsibility to themselves, others and nature. There was no lack, no crime, no negativity and it was a paradise. In the biblical sense this was a global flood.
The "ark of the covenant" of Noah means the inner space where you are safe and in the hands of God or Existence. It means that no matter what kind of flood comes in your life (misery, anger, sadness, etc) you are connected within yourself and you can find comfort and the solution for everything.
The "two of every kind of creature" means that each and every kind (good and bad) are accepted by God. There is no rejection from the part of God. It is only man who creates the separation in his mind. All the dualities you will read are about how man has created it and the effects of this. It shows what you reap when your sow dualities and separation in your consciousness. It shows what happens when you are no longer connected with God or Existence or Nature. Nature (God) gives back according to what you sow.
The rains symbolize blessings (the rains fall on the just and the unjust) and the 40 days is also symbolic. (Jesus was 40 days in the dessert and fasted for 40 days).
So how are you going to use the story for your present moment? You can find ways to go deeper into your own life experience or you can continue to focus on what happened in the past and try to prove it and find support for it. What is your choice? Your own choice will determine if you are still a baby or a maturing adult.
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God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man. - Ibn al 'Arabi
Psssssst ONE this forty is indeed interesting,for is it not said that moses survived 40 days on the strength of one meal???? hast thou heard of eliyahu ( elijah ) who also survived 40 days and nights on the strength of one meal??? What i want to say for the edification of all is a direction of thought that those jews who believe in young world say correctly that the waters which came from the earth were boiling hot and we all know that boiling ANYTHING is a killer....Personally i do NOT believe in young earth but friends!! this is part of freedom you belive in what you want and i will try to support you...However science does not in any way support shaka as regards the flood Science says that at one time our earth was covered over a kilomtre deep by ice ........Hands up everybody who cannot melt ice into boiling water...They the jews do say that the boiling water made fossils but from what science tells me the dinosaurs were LOOOOOOOOOONg gone before the delugeso the whole thing is kind of up in the air so perhaps one day we will be brought to understanding....
Global flood?There wasn't even a globe idea at that time.. But you try to convince people as if they "know" this term since you provide "truth" from bible..
Quoting the Bible is not to impress anyone, but to share the truth.
Mythology.
And yes you have presented reasons why you interpret the evidence in ways I consider wrong...you consider right. Not only does the Bible tell us about the global food, but the physical evidence supports it. The evidence all fits within the global flood model and supports it.
Empty words - as per your tradition. You consider them wrong? Have the strength of your opinions and tell us why. If you can bring up an argument that has not been refuted countless times before, you'll have earned the chance to the smug, self-complacent, arrogant person who claims "all evidence" fits a "model" that doesn't exist in the first place. Until then, yours are just empty words. Arrogant claims require convincing arguments if you don't want to be laughed at. Claiming you're right without actually bothering to prove that is pathetic.
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"Saturn 5 rockets and Sputnik and DNA and literature and science. These are the things hydrogen atoms do when given 13.7 billion years."
-Brian Cox-
If you can bring up an argument that has not been refuted countless times before, you'll have earned the chance to the smug, self-complacent, arrogant person who claims "all evidence" fits a "model" that doesn't exist in the first place. Until then, yours are just empty words. Arrogant claims require convincing arguments if you don't want to be laughed at. Claiming you're right without actually bothering to prove that is pathetic.
Shaka...I appear smug, self complacent and arrogant with arrogant claims and empty words that are pathetic and to be laughed at?
You and I both are sharing our beliefs in this channel. Neither of us can prove what we believe. Both of us believe the evidence supports our beliefs. Fossils on top of a mountain dont prove anything. It certainly does not prove your beliefs, and neither does it mine. As I stated before, I think the evidence in support of the global flood is overwhelming, as do many geologists, paleontologists etc. etc.
I have listed a few of the evidences of a global flood and here are a few more
1. Fossil 'graveyards' exist containing billions of fossils and many perfectly preserved. There is even fossils of fish giving birth, and fish in the process of swallowing another fish. These fossil 'graveyards' around the world are evidence of catastrophic destruction and burial.
2. Sedimentary layers (from flood) of rocks that extend accross continents and in some cases even accross the Atlantic
3. Evidences of sediment being deposited long distance from where they originated
4. Rock laters comtaining fossils that are folded upwards in the mountains yet the rock is not cracked or broken...evidence these layers were rapidly deposited and folded while they were still soft.
5. We could even use the fact that there is a worldwide flood stories/ legends amongst natives as evidence.
6. Rocks of different 'ages' have similar characteristics is an evidence it was laid down by a single global event.
7. Polystrate fossils are found worldwide where one fossil can exist in several layers of sediment that are millions of years of evolutionary time.
8. meteorites have very seldom if ever been found in the geological columm, or the 'old earth'
9. Changing axis tilt of the earth
10. Raised shorelines found world wide indicating a time when the worlds seas and oceans were at a different level, and consistant with the global flood model
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One... Thanks for the links, but they sort of prove the point that its based on beliefs. We can have one set of evidences but 2 opposing interpretations. There is no proof... But there sure is lots of evidence!!
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One, the floating ark of noah was NOT the ark of any covenant...
One, the floating ark of noah was NOT the ark of any covenant...
Pietro... Are you sure?? I thought that when Job came off that mountain with the 10 commandments the people rebelled and built the ark of the covenant. The flood came and Jonah was saved??
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One, the floating ark of noah was NOT the ark of any covenant...
Pietro... Are you sure?? I thought that when Job came off that mountain with the 10 commandments the people rebelled and built the ark of the covenant. The flood came and Jonah was saved?? :)
Do you REALLY believe this happened, with all your heart? (Honest question)
One, the floating ark of noah was NOT the ark of any covenant...
Pietro... Are you sure?? I thought that when Job came off that mountain with the 10 commandments the people rebelled and built the ark of the covenant. The flood came and Jonah was saved?? :)
Do you REALLY believe this happened, with all your heart? (Honest question)
Wizard... I'm sorry... I was joking around with Pietro changing the the story and the characters. (Jonah wasn't saved from the flood)
But, as far as believing in the story of a global flood 'with all my heart'?
ABSOLUTELY!! and the scientific evidence supports that belief. Those who claim the evidence does not support it also believe it 'with all thier hearts'
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Another evidence thats supports the global flood model is that Antartica does not have tens of thousands of years of ice accumulation and erosion as once thought. Scientists had until recently assumed that Antartica's land mass would be mostly smoothed down from years of glacial action. However the following article from 2009 explains how Antartica has jagged mountains similar to the alps. "The new research suggests they formed in a fraction of the time and the area could have been ice free at some points in history. This means any rapid fluctuation in global temperature could have a much faster effect on the formationtion of ice sheets than first thought". This finding supports the flood model in which creation geologists believe the mountains formed during and at the end of Noahs flood about 4300 years ago. ... And, that they were covered during the ice age that followed the flood.
Not millions of years
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Another evidence thats supports the global flood model is that Antartica does not have tens of thousands of years of ice accumulation and erosion as once thought. Scientists had until recently assumed that Antartica's land mass would be mostly smoothed down from years of glacial action. However the following article from 2009 explains how Antartica has jagged mountains similar to the alps. "The new research suggests they formed in a fraction of the time and the area could have been ice free at some points in history. This means any rapid fluctuation in global temperature could have a much faster effect on the formationtion of ice sheets than first thought". This finding supports the flood model in which creation geologists believe the mountains formed during and at the end of Noahs flood about 4300 years ago. ... And, that they were covered during the ice age that followed the flood.
So what? Its all blah, blah, blah. Better to spend time on things that can take you beyond mind-f***ng so you can know and experience reality NOW and HERE. All the evidence of living a joyful life is available in our PRESENT.
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God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man. - Ibn al 'Arabi
Another evidence thats supports the global flood model is that Antartica does not have tens of thousands of years of ice accumulation and erosion as once thought. Scientists had until recently assumed that Antartica's land mass would be mostly smoothed down from years of glacial action. However the following article from 2009 explains how Antartica has jagged mountains similar to the alps. "The new research suggests they formed in a fraction of the time and the area could have been ice free at some points in history. This means any rapid fluctuation in global temperature could have a much faster effect on the formationtion of ice sheets than first thought". This finding supports the flood model in which creation geologists believe the mountains formed during and at the end of Noahs flood about 4300 years ago. ... And, that they were covered during the ice age that followed the flood.
So what? Its all blah, blah, blah.
It isn't just BLAH to you or you wouldn't have taken the time to try and give counter evidence to a global flood. The reason you now say BLAH is you do not want to hear evidence that says God will one day judge us. God has judged this world before with water, and He tell us the next judgement will be with fire.
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It isn't just BLAH to you or you wouldn't have taken the time to try and give counter evidence to a global flood. The reason you now say BLAH is you do not want to hear evidence that says God will one day judge us. God has judged this world before with water, and He tell us the next judgement will be with fire.
Yes, the counter evidence was given. But all the evidence that is never ending will only result in mind and ego enhancement and nothing more.
Sorry, it is only a very idiotic and stupid God who will judge people with water and again with fire. A loving God does not act like limited minded humans. He does not react and do things as humans do. Humans judge themselves not God.
You are talking about a fictional God who is EXACTLY in the same mind frame as a unconscious, limited human. This God's intelligence is not superior than an average human.
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God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man. - Ibn al 'Arabi
New article says that a local flood in Canada had a worldwide impact. More and more evidence mounts that there once was a global flood..... yet researchers see everything through their evolutionary lenses, and seek alternate explanations to the evidence.
world altering collapse of Canadian ice dam
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There is a global flood happening right now all over the world. This is the flood of consciousness and awareness happening within individuals and this flood will cause a bigger change in the world.
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God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man. - Ibn al 'Arabi
Another thing creationists believe may have happened at the time of Noahs flood is that the earth was hit by giant asteroids such as this one in the Congo. Impact Crator
That one is in the Congo. I believe the largest one is in Mexico measuring 112 miles across (180KM). There may have been a number of these space impacts during the flood accompanied by tectonic movements / earthquakes, and volcanic activity.
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"The bible tells that the "waters prevailed exceeedingly upon the earth.; and all the high hills that were under heaven were covered" Genesis 7:19."
---when was this written? In exact dates please..
Its interesting that science continues to discover EVIDENCE of the global flood, but avoids the obvious conclusion that .....the whole earth has been flooded in the past. The link is to a very recent science article talking about "ancient mega floods in Alaska". The flood happened "with such great velocity, (it) formed dunes higher than 110 feet, with at least a half mile between crests".
"your mind doesn't get around dunes of that size"
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So what if there was a global flood how is that going to change or enhance your present reality? It is easy to find support for any kind of belief and claim that your belief is authentic.
If you look within yourself you will find all the answers that your mind can never conceive.
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God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man. - Ibn al 'Arabi